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Connected to TAPPED IN on Tue Sep 11 05:59:20 2001 PDT.

 

Stopped recording in DerrelF's Office (Pepperdine) (#11040) at Tue Sep 11 06:01:59 2001 PDT.

Started recording in Polin's Legit. Pit of Peripherality (#2948)[TappedIn] at Tue Sep 11 06:01:59 2001 PDT.

AnnO waves

 

SarahG arrives from nowhere.

SarahG's personal recorder follows SarahG to here.

DerrelF waves

 

ScottGW arrives from nowhere.

ScottGW's personal recorder follows ScottGW to here.

SarahG says, "Good morning"

 

AnnO exclaims, "Morning all!"

 

GloriaS says, "good morning"

 

DerrelF exclaims, "Good morning!"

 

ScottGW exclaims, "Yes,it is morning!"

 

BarbG waves at everyone

 

DerrelF says, "But not here... "-)"

 

LindaX says, "hey derrel."

 

LindaX says, "man, it's soooo dark out"

 

DerrelF asks, "Yes?"

 

LindaX says, "nothing, just hey derrel."

 

DerrelF says, "It's better since the typhoon passed...."

 

SarahG says, "Summer's over..."

 

BarbG says, "Not here!  It's late here....  :-0"

 

DerrelF says, "We cancelled school today."

 

AnnO asks, "Wow...a typhoon???"

 

LindaX says, "oh yeah, i saw pictures of folks walking down the street with their umbrellas turned inside out"

 

ScottGW asks, "What time is it in Japan, Derrel?"

 

DerrelF says, "It's 10PM"

 

KrisH arrives from nowhere.

KrisH's personal recorder follows KrisH to here.

BarbG says, "Not THAT late, here, though...."

 

DerrelF says, "I don't consider the meeting times quite so successful.

               :-)"

 

LindaX says, "sorry bout that"

 

DerrelF exclaims, "I'll complain a lot more after November 1!"

 

StacyRV arrives from nowhere.

StacyRV's personal recorder follows StacyRV to here.

AnnO asks, "Derrel...what's November 1?"

 

GloriaS says, "hi stacy"

 

LindaX asks, "so your ideal time would be 4 a.m.?"

 

StacyRV says, "Howdy."

 

DerrelF says, "DST in the US turns off, or around that date, and the 6AM

               becomes 11PM for me"

 

LindaX says, "ooh, true"

 

DerrelF exclaims, "4AM would be great!"

 

SarahG says, "Sorry, Derrel"

 

DerrelF exclaims, "East coasters would love it!"

 

ScottGW exclaims, "I don't think so!"

 

ValerieL finds her way in.

ValerieL's personal recorder follows ValerieL to here.

LindaX asks, "let's see 4 a.m. or 2 p.m. pacific eh?"

 

BarbG says, "Sounds good to me, too...."

 

GloriaS says, "i like that....gs"

 

BarbG exclaims, "but 8 AM works for me here, too.  Not a problem!"

 

StacyRV says, "Neither"

 

LindaX says, "what would you recommend derrel. i can't remember when we

              met for John Park"

 

DerrelF . o O ( Okay, I have to figure the conversion times... )

 

TeresaAC arrives from nowhere.

TeresaAC's personal recorder follows TeresaAC to here.

 

LindaX says, "ah but barb the rest of us are hauling our kids off to school"

 

BarbG says, "No - I mean it's 8 AM for me here now...."

 

SarahG says, "Or hauling ourselves off to work"

 

DerrelF says, "Um, 7AM here is 3PM now, or 2pm later"

 

LindaX says, "yeah, too early for the worker bees"

 

ValerieL says, "Good morning everyone."

 

AnnO exclaims, "Wow..that's confusing!"

 

LindaX says, "but if we move to 4:30, then YOU'RE at work"

 

AnnO exclaims, "Morning, Valerie!"

 

LindaX says, "i think John Park used to log on during work"

 

ValerieL says, "Morning, Ann"

 

SarahG says, "You're kidding"

 

DerrelF says, "That's true. But it beats staying up till midnight twice

               a week."

 

LindaX nods

 

LindaX says, "maybe they could give you a special dispensation"

 

TeresaAC says, "mornin all -- evening Derrell (?)"

 

DerrelF says, "Lets think on it for a while and talk later"

 

LindaX says, "okay"

 

LindaX says, "okay, let's start while Derrel is still conscious"

 

BarbG grins

 

LindaX says, "you guys are doing a very good job on a tough book"

 

DerrelF . o O ( Do the sleeping pills work that fast... ) LindaX says, "well, it's not THAT tough, but it's not reading you're

              used to"

 

AnnO asks, "Do we need to do a roll call first?"

 

BarbG says, "Sorry, but some of us are still waiting for delivery.  It's

             supposed to arrive today."

 

GloriaS says, "here"

 

LindaX says, "oh, thanks ann yes"

 

StacyRV says, "here"

 

LindaX says, "go"

 

AnnO says, "here"

 

BarbG exclaims, "here!"

 

DerrelF says, "here"

 

TeresaAC says, "here"

 

ScottGW says, "Here"

 

ValerieL says, "Here"

 

GloriaS says, "here"

 

SarahG says, "here"

 

KrisH says, "here"

 

LindaX designates Ann the attendance monitor and hands her the hall pass to take attendance up to the office

 

LindaX grins

 

AnnO laughs

 

SarahG says, "I'm still trying to get used to the educational jargon

              they use in the book"

 

SusanJR arrives from nowhere.

SusanJR's personal recorder follows SusanJR to here.

Personal_Recorder_52727 follows SusanJR to here.

LindaX nosd

 

LindaX says, "yes, we're working to appropriate that language and make

              it our own"

 

ValerieL says, "I make sure I have my dictionary close at hand."

 

SusanJR says, "godd morning to all"

 

LindaX grins

 

TeresaAC [to SarahG]: "you mean stickiness?"

 

LindaX asks, "don't you hate it when i talk that way?"

 

LindaX says, "well, to be honest, i hadn't encountered the word 'reify'

              til I first read this book."

 

BarbG says, "I've been keeping up with (and printing) the posts so far

             on the book, though.  Both from our group and the PhD

             group..."

 

AnnO says, "hegemony, either"

 

SarahG says, "Or, like Derrel said in Ng, indexicality.."

 

LindaX says, "language is so powerful and so old that it becomes

              difficult to make new meaning with old words"

 

TeresaAC . o O ( BarbG might have a better idea than actually reading the book )

DerrelF [to AnnO]: "Apparently you weren't the dominate priviledge white

                    male in your culture class..."

 

LindaX says, "indexicality is a word that comes to this text from the

              roots of its authors in anthropology and ethnomethodology"

 

LindaX grins

 

SarahG . o O ( "hhhmmm )

LindaX says, "indexicality refers to the closed system of cultural

              language"

 

LindaX says, "that is, insiders talk"

 

AnnO [to DerrelF]: ""nope"

 

ScottGW asks, "What is ethnomethodology?"

 

DerrelF says, "Ummm, what do you mean by "closed""

 

LindaX says, "its a research methodology for studying culture"

 

TeresaAC . o O ( i thought i needed to know more about pysch now anthro too -- )

ScottGW says, "ok, thanks"

 

LindaX says, "by closed i mean circular"

 

LindaX says, "self-referencing"

 

SusanJR says, "I did  a little anthropology a long long time ago... but

               Im a bit rusty"

 

DerrelF asks, "Okay, so if the language grows, it grows from itself?"

 

StacyRV says, "I'm hoping the book stays in back order..."

 

SarahG laughs

 

LindaX says, "and references ideas and histories and activities from

              within the culture"

 

TeresaAC . o O ( if i emote all session that would be a study in its self )

AnnO says, "or does it mean that in order to be accepted into the 'club'

            you have to adopt the language"

 

GloriaS says, "stacy go to the online book store efollett"

 

SusanJR asks, "stacy, are you having trouble getting the book too?"

 

GloriaS says, "www.efollet.com"

 

KrisH exclaims, "Now we're speaking enlish!"

 

LindaX says, "wow, you should have the book by now. it ships in 24 hrs

              from Amazon"

 

SusanJR asks, "efollett has it when Amazon doesn't?"

 

GloriaS says, "not amazon backorder 2 weeks"

 

LindaX asks, "did you guys buy up all the copies?"

 

LindaX grins

 

GloriaS says, "efollett is associated with pepperdine"

 

StacyRV says, "Not any of the book stores that I've checked."

 

SusanJR says, "Linda... maybe Amazon likes you ..."

 

LindaX says, "also, i bet our bookstore has it"

 

BarbG says, "That's what they said at B/N, too, but it didn't.  It has

             taken two or three weeks so far.  Should get here today,

             though."

 

AnnO says, "I think I saw a copy at a Borders brick and mortar"

 

LindaX says, "it's fairly common in educ"

 

BarbG says, "(Sorry, guys, but B/N had better pricing and free

             shipping.....)"

 

SusanJR says, "At Borders??? maybe Ill call"

 

AnnO says, "Borders, Pasadena"

 

LindaX says, "look in the bookstore of your local college (one with an

              ed. dept.)"

 

LindaX says, "let's move on."

 

ValerieL says, "You can find the book at Pepperdine's book store, or

                Borders."

 

SusanJR says, "ok"

 

LindaX asks, "has anyone gotten to the middle yet, the examples?"

 

KrisH says, "Yes"

 

SusanJR says, "no"

 

AnnO says, "Yes"

 

LindaX loves borders pasadena

 

SarahG says, "No"

 

StacyRV says, "no"

 

ValerieL says, "No"

 

ScottGW says, "Not yet"

 

DerrelF says, "Yes, I found the meatcutters interesting"

 

SusanJR says, "ok... I"

 

TeresaAC says, "no"

 

LindaX says, "yeah, tell us about the meatcutters derrel"

 

SusanJR says, "Ill take a little trip to Pasadena"

 

DerrelF says, "But they really don't talk about how people end up in LPP"

 

DerrelF says, "IN summary...."

 

DerrelF says, "New meatcutters go to meatcutters school where they are

               taught"

 

DerrelF says, "ideas and actions that really aren't useful"

 

DerrelF says, "such as knife sharpening, when all the knifes are

               actually sent out to be sharpened."

 

LindaX says, "p 76"

 

DerrelF says, "Then, when they get to a store for their apprenticeship,"

 

TeresaAC says, "BTW while Derrel' is writing -- I "checked out" the book

                from Vandy and reading it as an ebook"

 

DerrelF says, "They are often used as "grunt" labor doing such good

               things"

 

SusanJR asks, "Teresa... what is Vandy and how can you check something

               out there?"

 

DerrelF says, "as wrapping meat, sometimes for years."

 

ValerieL asks, "What is that experience like Teresa?"

 

DerrelF says, "They seldom get a chance to practice their skills, or

               even"

 

LindaX says, "sssh you two..."

 

AmyMur arrives from nowhere.

AmyMur's personal recorder follows AmyMur to here.

TeresaAC says, "Vanderbilt University -- I have a spouse loaner

                card/loggin"

 

DerrelF says, "to observer a master butcher in action. In short,"

 

DerrelF says, "They are sequestered. It sounds like a terrible system."

 

SusanJR says, "Darn, I thought it would be easy"

 

DerrelF asks, "So, why would anybody go into it?"

 

BarbG asks, "Hmmmm  Does that sound a little like K-12 education too

             often?"

 

LindaX says, "in the middle of page 77 they mention taht teachers teach

              techniques in use when THEY worked in retail markets...that

              are readily adaptable to a school setting...most

              assignments are not relevant to the supermarket."

 

SusanJR says, "I was thinking the same thing Barb"

 

DerrelF asks, "Yes--anybody every factor a polynomial?"

 

LindaX says, "my thoughts exactly barbg. good reasons for bad ideas"

 

ScottGW asks, "Do they ever cut meat when assigned as a wrapper?"

 

DerrelF says, "No, or seldom"

 

DerrelF says, "Worse, the wrapping machine is often out of sight ofthe"

 

DerrelF says, "butchers, so they can't even WATCH"

 

GloriaS says, "this meatcutter school sounds like training sessions in

               my company"

 

SusanJR  laughs

 

LindaX asks, "sequestering is the worse thing for a social learning

              model, no?"

 

TeresaAC says, "Sorry but i need clarification here -- p.77 is in

                chapter 4 -- I thought we were reading 1-3"

 

BarbG nods

 

SarahG says, "yes, it is..."

 

SusanJR says, "definitelyh"

 

ScottGW says, "agree"

 

LindaX says, "and our own k-12 teachers are pretty darned sequestered

              from expert practice"

 

AnnO says, "Linda, I agree"

 

StacyRV says, "agree"

 

BarbG says, "Exactly.."

 

SusanJR agrees too

 

DerrelF asks, "Expert practice in what?"

 

KrisH says, "We do go through a type of apprenticeship when we student

             teach, but"

 

LindaX says, "teaching"

 

AnnO says, "Teresa, we're talking about the Lave and Wenger book"

 

ScottGW says, "True in the corporte settign to"

 

LindaX says, "teachers don't get much of an opportunity to SEE other

              good teachers."

 

KrisH says, "there is so much more to learn when we are actually on the

             job with no mentors"

 

AnnO says, "Very true in the corporate setting...when business needs

            impact structure"

 

LindaX asks, "did i give or show or link to the Japanese 'lesson study'

              paper ?"

 

GloriaS says, "no"

 

SarahG says, "no"

 

AnnO says, "Not that I know of"

 

SusanJR says, "but some teachers are thrown in the deep end with very

               little actual observation"

 

StacyRV says, "That's why I think on the job development is better than

               going to some workshop."

 

SusanJR says, "no"

 

LindaX asks, "okay, i need to post that. derrel do you know about that?"

 

AnnO says, "Stacy, depends on who you're on the job with"

 

TeresaAC asks, "expert practice -- as in Master Teacher?"

 

KrisH says, "Yes, that is happening in California where"

 

DerrelF says, "Yes, but it's been a while."

 

LindaX says, "oh, wait, i see it under resources onthe syllabus"

 

DerrelF says, "Japan is interesting and full of contradictions"

 

SusanJR says, "my no was in answer to Lindas question"

 

LindaX says, "it's a way to try to give teachers access to each other's

              practice"

 

KrisH says, "new teachers are going into the classroom with NO student

             teaching and an emergency credential. They take classes in

             the evenings"

 

BarbG [to TeresaAC]: "I think the Master Teacher thing was just a TN

                      thing, maybe."

 

DerrelF says, "If I recall, though, it's mostly applicable for the

               younger graades"

 

AmyMur says, "/wh derrelf good morning.. we have buddy pages up.. will

              send addresses later.. :> bye"

 

SarahG says, "yeah...my roommate is one of those..."

 

LindaX asks, "TN?"

 

LindaX says, "i don't think so derrel."

 

BarbG says, "Tennessee"

 

TeresaAC says, "Master teacher was from my Vermont education licensing

                program too"

 

KrisH says, "We have that option if a teacher goes to school."

 

LindaX says, "basically, teachers sit in a group and discuss one

              teacher's lesson"

 

AmyMur has disconnected.

BarbG says, "Different program, same name, I guess@"

 

DerrelF says, "Maybe we are thinking of different papers. I'll take a

               look..."

 

LindaX says, "here: http://www.lessonresearch.net/aera2000.html"

 

LindaX projects the URL:

 

http://www.lessonresearch.net/aera2000.html SusanJR says, "I started out in the classroom...100% - no student

               teaching, on an emergency permit...in LAUSD"

 

LindaX says, "classic susan"

 

LindaX says, "for lausd that is"

 

LindaX says, "derrel, i just picked up another interesting book, by

              Singleton, called Learning in Likely Places:

              Apprenticeships in Japan"

 

BarbG says, "That will be happening more everywhere now, with the

             shortages that are beginning to be really felt."

 

SusanJR says, "it was tough... and I started my MA in ED with a

               Credential the following spring...I was desperate by then"

 

LindaX says, "i need an excuse for a tax deductible trip to Japan."

 

LindaX grins

 

TeresaAC says, "though ed licensed in Vermont I did my student teaching

                in Tennessee -- because I was "older" I was left in alone

                in the classroom from day 1"

 

DerrelF grins

 

SusanJR says, "LA unified is notorious for that..."

 

LindaX says, "yes susan, we don't just sequester kids, we sequester

              teachers too"

 

LindaX says, "how about at the higher ed or corporate workplace"

 

DerrelF says, "So, if they are master teachers, why is Japanese HS so

               bad, resulting"

 

LindaX asks, "any of you guys ehre?"

 

DerrelF asks, "in uncreative folk?"

 

KrisH says, "Yes, Barb, I think you are right. Too bad, because teachers

             need the support of the Master Teacher to learn their craft

             in a supportied setting."

 

LindaX says, "same as here derrel...testing"

 

GloriaS says, "corp america is very similar."

 

AnnO asks, "Derrel, is that a result of the master teachers...or the

            culture?"

 

SarahG says, "We have a great program for student teachers at Pepperdine

              malibu.."

 

DerrelF says, "I have some kids who go to Juku, but not very many"

 

SusanJR says, "I would have loved to have had a Master teacher to

               observe"

 

AnnO asks, "What is juku?"

 

StacyRV says, "It's not much different in Corporate America."

 

ScottGW says, "The setting I live in doesn't sequester at all."

 

DerrelF says, "I had a master teacher..."

 

LindaX says, "tell us about it scott's"

 

DerrelF says, "Juku is cram school after school"

 

LindaX says, "tell us about it scott"

 

ScottGW says, "The instructors actually go through a training course"

 

SusanJR asks, "is it only for kids with problems Derrel?"

 

BarbG says, "The girl my son is dating is in education in a NY

             university.  They go out into the schools every semester

             from their freshman year until graduation.  Sort of like

             perpetual interns...."

 

DerrelF says, "No, it's a parent push to do it."

 

DerrelF says, "We discourage it."

 

ScottGW says, "and a OJT program, then teach with an adjucnt instructor

               before going on their own"

 

AnnO asks, "Scott..what kind of training course?  Like a train the

            trainer?"

 

LindaX says, "scott, remind me where you are"

 

SusanJR says, "I would too... parents sometimes push a bit too much"

 

TeresaAC says, "in Taiwan there are called Bushibons (sp?) and are for

                extra practice --"

 

StacyRV says, "Our trainers are more like HR Generalists.  We usually

               bring in outside consultants that are trainers."

 

ScottGW says, "I'm at Lawrence Livermore Lab"

 

AnnO says, "Our trainers are SMEs...we send them to a train the trainer

            class"

 

BarbG asks, "SME?"

 

LindaX asks, "does everyone know the term SME?"

 

LindaX says, "subj matter expert"

 

SarahG says, "no.."

 

StacyRV says, "yes"

 

KrisH says, "no"

 

ValerieL asks, "What have been the benefits of this?"

 

SusanJR says, "yes"

 

StacyRV exclaims, "how many trainers do you have?!"

 

ScottGW says, "They go through a one week Basic Instructor Training

               course"

 

SusanJR asks, "intensive then?"

 

SarahG asks, "And then they do on-the-job training after that?"

 

AnnO says, "I find, though, that even if they go through Basic

            Instructor Training, it would help if they spent time with an

            experienced instructor."

 

ScottGW says, "It focuses on the delivery aspect"

 

LindaX says, "let's get back to the meatcutters for a sec. Part of what

              that story shows us is that it's not "do they get tra ined

              or not" but how they get trained and what they are trained

              in"

 

SusanJR says, "that's really important"

 

LindaX says, "why they get trained etc"

 

SarahG says, "the structure and the system.."

 

DerrelF says, "They are always learning, it just may not be useful"

 

LindaX says, "part of what's going on with the meatcutters is a union

              thing"

 

SusanJR says, "the how is really important..."

 

TeresaAC says, "i posted to ng late last night -- but, what I was

                referring to in the posting was that teachers from my old

                school are beginning to use technology as their SME"

 

StacyRV says, "learn & apply"

 

KrisH says, "and also how they fit into a larger economic model"

 

BarbG says, "That's true.  Most of us receive some sort of training, but

             how effective it is and how relative it is to what is needed

             might be another story."

 

LindaX bingos krisH

 

AnnO says, "There's that union thing..."

 

LindaX says, "the guy running the meatshop in the supermarket is working

              for cost effectivness"

 

AnnO says, "...and productivity"

 

LindaX says, "and that turns out to come from 'short repetitive tasks""

 

LindaX nods

 

KrisH says, "It is interesting that the meatcutters..."

 

DerrelF says, "With little waste of the inexperienced"

 

LindaX nods

 

KrisH says, "who work in economically poorer neighborhoods actually

             learn more."

 

DerrelF says, "I thought that was interesting"

 

LindaX nods

 

KrisH says, "There are fewer workers..."

 

SarahG says, "they're exploited.."

 

TeresaAC says, "demand might lessen w/ change in diet or disease --

                larger picture"

 

KrisH says, "and more opportunities to learn other jobs."

 

DerrelF asks, "So, do teachers who work in poorer neighborhoods actually

               learn more?"

 

StacyRV says, "Good question."

 

LindaX says, "well, the outside world in which the practice exists has

              changed and reshaped the practice, but for a variety of

              reasons, the practitioners haven't adapted."

 

SarahG says, "I would think not necessarily"

 

DerrelF . o O ( Probably not--they don't have anybody to observe... )

KrisH says, "In poorer neighborhoods teachers receive federal money to

             pay for lots of inservicing."

 

TeresaAC says, "I've been at both ends of the socio-econ spectrum -- I

                would say it was the same -- just different things"

 

LindaX [to DerrelF]: "they learn more, but not about teaching"

 

LindaX lol

 

KrisH says, "Training is ongoing"

 

SusanJR says, "two planes just crashed into the Twin towers...

               hijackers... one into each tower... sorry to interrupt"

 

StacyRV says, "never ending..."

 

TeresaAC says, "teaching at both ends that is -- public inner city to

                private"

 

DerrelF says, "Yes, but in Chicago teachers who failed one of the state

               tests were more likely to be in a poorer neighborhood."

 

LindaX says, "derrel it is not uncommon in LAUSD in the hardcore

              sections of hte city, for the teaching staff to be at least

              50% emergency permit or 'new' teachers."

 

SusanJR says, "I had the tv on... cant see it from here"

 

BarbG asks, "Husband just called about that, Susan.  Terrorist attack,

             they think?"

 

TeresaAC says, "teaching in inner city -- i was in Maslow's mode of just

                always barely reaching safety level"

 

DerrelF says, "Yes, I would be considered "out of subject" by some if I

               taught math in LA"

 

KrisH says, "Same thing in Richmond"

 

SusanJR says, "the World Trade Center...NYC"

 

LindaX says, "ah but we're so desperate derrel, we'd take you"

 

AnnO says, "Just not pay you..."

 

SusanJR laughs at Linda

 

DerrelF . o O ( but the pay...> )

SarahG says, "We'd give you combat pay"

 

BarbG exclaims, "Hey, if you can teach math, we'll hire you today!"

 

LindaX says, "true we would derrel"

 

StacyRV says, "We'd even take you in the Corp Rate Race... And we pay."

 

DerrelF grins

 

ValerieL has disconnected.

LindaX lol

 

SusanJR says, "Wed love to have Derrel here"

 

LindaX says, "alas, it's not funny"

 

GloriaS says, "I think think that i will stay on corp america"

 

TeresaAC says, "i didn't receive combat pay -- only union pressure"

 

LindaX asks, "hey gloria, you awake?"

 

SusanJR says, "remember my apostrophes dont work"

 

LindaX says, "perfect timing"

 

StacyRV says, "Not to teach Math."

 

SusanJR says, "my comment to Derrel was we would love to have Derrel

               here"

 

ValerieL has connected.

SusanJR says, "it just looked a bit strange without the apostrophe...

               thought I would clarify"

 

ScottGW laughs

 

DerrelF says, "The next piece comes from an e-mail I received--:The

               state's biggest test flunker failed 24 of 25 tests,

               including 12 out of 12 tests on how to teach

               learning-disabled children. Yet, the individual was

               teaching learning-disabled children in Chicago last year,

               a Sun-Times analysis of state records showed."

 

LindaX says, "okay, let's spend the last bit of class thikning about the

              assignments for this class."

 

GloriaS says, "i am here linda, just waiting to get a word in"

 

ValerieL says, "I just lost my connection, but I'm back."

 

StacyRV exclaims, "Yes, these classes are going to kill me...!"

 

StacyRV exclaims, "Lot's to do with little time..!"

 

SusanJR says, "it is scary Derrel... that there are teachers out there

               like that"

 

AnnO asks, "ok...the extended writing piece...or the mucking with the

            real world??"

 

LindaX says, "the mucking"

 

SarahG [to Stacy]: "RV "me too"

 

TeresaAC says, "i needed more training in learning disabilities before

                teaching in inner city"

 

GloriaS says, "yes explain mucking please"

 

DerrelF says, "I'm happy to muck with students"

 

SarahG . o O ( "mucking )

LindaX says, "i want you folks to go out and basically study your

              workplace"

 

TeresaAC says, "think mucking"

 

SusanJR says, "lets talk about the assignments"

 

DerrelF . o O ( it won't be pretty... ) LindaX says, "to think about the kind of community of practice you have

              there."

 

GloriaS says, "they won't like that"

 

AnnO asks, "So...understand the current state and identify where we can

            apply what we learn?"

 

SusanJR says, "what exactly do we study about it?  I am new in the

               school... and am studying EVERYTHING"

 

TeresaAC . o O ( i'm unemployed... oh,no ) DerrelF says, "So, Susan is deep in her own LPP"

 

StacyRV exclaims, "Do we journal what we study?!"

 

LindaX says, "i'd like you to take a look around"

 

LindaX asks, "where's the expertise?"

 

SusanJR says, "ok"

 

LindaX asks, "how do people learn?"

 

LindaX asks, "what are the tools?"

 

LindaX asks, "how is language used?"

 

SusanJR asks, "department by department?"

 

LindaX says, "you make that decision of how wide to cast the net susan"

 

SusanJR says, "ok"

 

LindaX says, "but i'd start by thinking about just what the practice is"

 

ValerieL says, "This will be a true learning experience."

 

LindaX says, "it's as if you were going to go do a meatcutters study,

              though hopefullly you don't work in a meatcutters world"

 

LindaX says, "well, the hard part will be NOT TO JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS"

 

DerrelF asks, "Doesn't a community or practice have to be voluntary? No

               draftees..?"

 

TeresaAC asks, "what about attitude about the learning/process?"

 

StacyRV says, "I'd like to pair up with some Corp folks to compare

               notes."

 

LindaX says, "it has to be a practice"

 

AnnO exclaims, "Stacy...that would be great!"

 

GloriaS says, "Great stacey i am with you"

 

ValerieL says, "I work in a corporate setting, and it's very laid back

                yet, it has structure."

 

LindaX says, "yes, stacy, i would hope you folks would start interacting

              about your observations in the ngs."

 

TeresaAC . o O ( notice the corp folks jumped together )

KrisH asks, "I would like to be in contact with other classroom teachers

             during this assignment. Anyone else interested?"

 

LindaX says, "please please please read the text ... the idea is to try

              to SEE these things in your work place"

 

SusanJR says, "Sure KrisH... count on me"

 

BarbG says, "Sure, Kris..."

 

DerrelF says, "Sure... It will be interesting"

 

StacyRV says, "How might we do this if most of our team is virtual?  Any

               suggestions."

 

LindaX says, "it may be that the write up of this task becomes the

              extended writing"

 

StacyRV says, "I'm open..."

 

LindaX asks, "get it???"

 

TeresaAC says, "sure Kris -- from a past perspective"

 

SusanJR asks, "meeting in TI?"

 

GloriaS says, "tapped in"

 

ScottGW says, "subtle hint"

 

============== Linda shares knowledge.=============

 

  You will study you work place as a culture/practice/activity system.

You will identify learning in that setting, and how

  the context, activities, participants and artifacts (tools, signs, and symbols) shape learning in that setting. I expect the

  group to go so far as to do appropriate interviews, 'Net searching, participant observation, and perhaps even some

  library work to become very knowledgeable on their chosen case. Gee, I bet that extended writing task would fit well in

  here.

===============ttttttthat's all folks!================ LindaX winks

 

AnnO says, "got it"

 

TeresaAC says, "got it"

 

StacyRV says, "it's sinking in"

 

GloriaS says, "got it"

 

BarbG nods vigorously   :-)

 

SarahG says, "got it.."

 

ValerieL says, "I understand."

 

SusanJR says, "ok... got it too"

 

DerrelF . o O ( I wonder if I will be joining Teresa if I show it to Admin... )

KrisH says, "Ok... understood."

 

SarahG laughs

 

LindaX says, "you will want to talk to people, to look at documents or

              other 'artifacts' at the workplace"

 

SusanJR asks, "what do you mean by artifacts?"

 

LindaX says, "anyone want to answer susan"

 

StacyRV says, "Something that represents something that you're studying."

 

TeresaAC says, "projects, mission statements,"

 

SusanJR says, "ok...thanks for the clarification"

 

ScottGW says, "to quote "tools, signs, and symbols""

 

LindaX says, "artifacts are things that fall out from practice"

 

StacyRV says, "Teresa's example is good."

 

KrisH says, "Realia, real examples of activities going on in the

             setting."

 

SusanJR says, "I think so too"

 

StacyRV exclaims, "Toys on the desk...!"

 

LindaX says, "one artifact of teaching is, alas, teacher editions of

              texts"

 

TeresaAC exclaims, "Mission statements-- for sure!"

 

LindaX nods at T

 

SusanJR says, "hard to find at times"

 

KrisH says, "We might want to come up with some sort of questionnaire

             together."

 

SusanJR says, "sounds good KrisJ"

 

ValerieL says, "That's a good idea Kris."

 

LindaX says, "an artifact of work at my GSEP dept is the mailroom"

 

GloriaS says, "not really susan most companies have mission statements"

 

LindaX says, "a lot happens in the mailroom"

 

SusanJR says, "sorry for the typo... I meant Kris H"

 

KrisH says, "For interviewing others at work."

 

AnnO asks, "Linda...like what?"

 

LindaX says, "it is our watercooler"

 

LindaX grins

 

DerrelF asks, "Is the coffee pot in the mailroom?"

 

SusanJR says, "I know schools do too"

 

LindaX says, "the xerox"

 

AnnO exclaims, "Ahh!"

 

SarahG chuckles

 

BarbG says, "the breakroom..."

 

GloriaS says, "lunchroom"

 

ValerieL says, "The copyroom"

 

StacyRV says, "This is starting to sound like something from Dilbert..."

 

TeresaAC says, "main office..."

 

LindaX says, "and as a result, we check our mailboxes regularly cause it

              gets us inthe mailroom for the gossip"

 

DerrelF . o O ( Teachers can take breaks....? ) SusanJR says, "news brief... a bomb in the Pentagon... and the White

               House is being evacuated too"

 

KrisH says, "Right now our whole focus is on the job our new principal

             is doing."

 

BarbG says, "teachers' lounge....."

 

LindaX says, "Dilbert is funny precisely BECAUSE it banks on the

              indexical knowledge we have of the workplaace"

 

KrisH says, "Conversation is concentrated."

 

TeresaAC says, "just heard pentagon too --"

 

LindaX says, "for some folks his HRM jokes are funny, for others, that

              part is a mystery"

 

SusanJR says, "I read about the water cooler in Campfires in

               Cyberspace... a very interesting book"

 

GloriaS says, "i love dilbert"

 

LindaX says, "yeah Teresa, it's a fairly big terrorist attack."

 

StacyRV says, "True, Linda."

 

LindaX has to fly to boston next month.

 

SarahG . o O ( yikes )

SusanJR asks, "maybe a train would be better Linda???"

 

LindaX nos

 

StacyRV says, "I fly once a week."

 

LindaX says, "i never fly on things labeled AMERCIAN"

 

TeresaAC says, "I was supposed to stay in world trade for wedding end of

                sept."

 

KrisH says, "Ooh, Linda! Good use of context to help to illustrate

             meaning of "indexicality"."

 

GloriaS says, "i think you will not have a room teresa"

 

LindaX says, "alas yes, for the terrorist it is a symbol"

 

LindaX says, "well, we have about 8 mins."

 

LindaX says, "i'd like to remind you all that you should be checking in

              on ed 638"

 

SusanJR says, "ok... sorry for the interruption"

 

LindaX says, "and ... THIS assignment will definitely help you with ed

              638"

 

SarahG says, "I see the syllabus is up"

 

TeresaAC says, "now we're rockin'"

 

BarbG says, "I hope so - it looks like it will.."

 

GloriaS says, "great"

 

StacyRV says, "when will you be having office time"

 

SusanJR says, "I have it printed out... and am still waiting on the

               books...which should be arriving any day now"

 

LindaX says, "you will "see" things at work that suggest to you where to

              point your ARP efforts"

 

TeresaAC asks, "should we email you Linda with questions?"

 

LindaX says, "post them teresa so everyone benefits f rom the discussion"

 

StacyRV says, "I hope so cos' I'm still wondering what to do..."

 

DerrelF says, "I learn a tremendous amount just being a voyeur"

 

SusanJR says, "good idea"

 

SusanJR says, "i am still wondering too Stacy"

 

SarahG says, "Me too, Stacy"

 

LindaX says, "last thing, could we return to the earlier question about

              how you get to LPP"

 

DerrelF . o O ( I meant of other people's posts. ) TeresaAC says, "i anticipating some difficulty around this move and new

                job (hopefully)"

 

LindaX imagines Derrel as a voyeur

 

DerrelF ooops

 

LindaX says, "hmmm, yeah, but think of it Teresa as a participant

              observer experience as a newbie"

 

LindaX lol

 

LindaX says, "seriouslyl"

 

BarbG exclaims, "Derrel, I'm beginning to wonder about you now....

                 mucking with students and now a voyeur!"

 

LindaX says, "find out how well your new work place settles you in"

 

TeresaAC . o O ( I actually have a job interview about developing an LPP )

LindaX says, "what sort of support structures are there to help you"

 

SusanJR asks, "just how do you muck with them derrel?"

 

DerrelF says, "Parents night in two nights.. wait till you see what I do

               to them."

 

LindaX lol

 

AnnO says, "scary"

 

LindaX asks, "shall we ask about the LPP question?"

 

DerrelF says, "Yes"

 

ValerieL says, "Yes"

 

ScottGW exclaims, "be gentle, Derrel!"

 

SusanJR asks, "to the parents?"

 

KrisH says, "Yes"

 

StacyRV says, "yes"

 

SarahG says, "Yes"

 

LindaX asks, "anyone want to take a shot at it?"

 

GloriaS says, "yes"

 

KrisH says, "Yes"

 

TeresaAC says, "nobody wants parents as LPP"

 

KrisH says, "I mean, no"

 

LindaX says, "they are an artifact of working with children"

 

LindaX says, "they come with the territory"

 

LindaX asks, "so how do you get to LPP?"

 

LindaX says, "you join a community"

 

DerrelF says, "So, you end up in an LPP either by choice or, more likely

               by force"

 

SusanJR asks, "How would they react if we called them artifacts???"

 

SarahG says, "voluntary, I thought"

 

DerrelF says, "The Yucatec midwives were voluntarily"

 

SusanJR says, "Voluntary"

 

DerrelF asks, "What about students in our school?"

 

LindaX says, "well i think prison, whch is not voluntary, is a community

              of practice"

 

AnnO says, "Voluntarily, involuntarily...formally, informally"

 

TeresaAC says, "having a kids  -- a choice?  not going there"

 

DerrelF says, "But one thing bugs me a bit...."

 

KrisH says, "Sort of, Derrel. They were born into families who were

             already members of the LPP."

 

TeresaAC says, "i too think by force"

 

LindaX says, "g'head derrel"

 

DerrelF says, "To make a choice, you have to know enough to make a

               choice"

 

DerrelF asks, "So, is there some other learning outside of LPP that gets

               you to the "make a choice" stage?"

 

LindaX says, "ah, you have to approach a practice"

 

DerrelF says, "Or do you end up in LPPs by chance, until you can make a

               choice"

 

TeresaAC says, "could be profession responsibility, learning growth,

                etc."

 

LindaX says, "so if the practice is hidden, you're not going to see lots

              of newbies heading toward it"

 

BarbG says, "We hope that's true, Derrel, but not always.  Sometimes NOT

             making a choice makes the choice for you."

 

StacyRV says, "Trail and error"

 

AnnO says, "In the corporate world, you can do informational nterviews."

 

LindaX says, "well the L part of LPP has to do with being accepted into

              the practice"

 

DerrelF says, "Okay, but I keep thinking k-12..."

 

LindaX says, "as an undergrad ed major you're not LPP'ing"

 

DerrelF asks, "What are you doing, then?"

 

TeresaAC says, "we tried "expectations" of tech use when hiring new

                teachers -- not all that successful"

 

LindaX says, "as a student teacher, you are"

 

KrisH says, "In student teaching you are LPP-ing."

 

DerrelF says, "Okay, this gets back to the book where they talked about

               physics students"

 

DerrelF says, "The students regenerate school, not the profession."

 

DerrelF says, "So the LPP they are in is not the one that all the

               teachers think they are in...."

 

LindaX says, "yeah, you get 'school versions of' math or even teaching"

 

SusanJR says, "sorry, I have to leave... I have to be at school by 7:20

               and it takes about 20 min with no traffic...I am not going

               to log off so as to get the whole trannie... but I need to

               go now... sorry"

 

LindaX says, "you know how teachers all rail that their methods course

              was useless."

 

DerrelF asks, "Factor a polynomial, recently?"

 

LindaX says, "oops yeah, time to go"

 

LindaX says, "great class gang."

 

SusanJR says, "bye.."

 

LindaX says, "stay out of gov. bldgs today"

 

GloriaS says, "ye"

 

StacyRV says, "bye"

 

LindaX says, "seriously"

 

GloriaS says, "bye"

 

TeresaAC says, "yikes"

 

SarahG says, "Bye"

 

AnnO exclaims, "take care, all!"

 

AnnO says, "bye"

 

DerrelF has disconnected.

 

Disconnected from TAPPED IN on Tue Sep 11 07:02:07 2001 PDT.